Oh how I hate to be using this (I've learned it from my statistics class), but I must add this point: correlation does not prove causation. There could be a huge number of other factors, namely such as how rare a manual car is in the United States anymore. Sure, most of the distracted drivers are in automatics, but most cars in America are automatics. At any rate, if someone is doing that sh*t on a highway, what difference does it make if they're in a manual or an automatic? You're not going to be shifting most of the time when you're on the highway, so in essence for those periods of time, the two transmissions are exactly the same. And if we're jabbing other transmissions, manual drivers tend to be a lot more reckless from what I've seen.

You've just driven sh*t automatics. My Ford has a cr*ppy transmission as well. But now they've really started to hit their A game, especially with the dual clutches and things. You know, I always used to say that performance like that didn't matter on normal roads, but just think, when was the last time you accelerated quickly to beat someone at a set of lights? I'm not talking about a drag race, but where you need to be in one lane, but you're really in the other and there's a car keeping you from going immediately over. Or when you're passing someone on a two lane road? Certainly you've done that. There are many opportunities to use it, and besides, it's easier to tap into the power when it is needed.

I can definitely relate to this. I drive an '07 Camry Hybrid every day, and that thing is so underpowered it's almost funny. Sometimes I'll be in a situation where someone wants to come into my lane, and the best option for me is to speed up past them. I'll press the gas a bit more, but I'll still be hovering in the guy's way, and it'll take a few seconds for me to actually get enough speed to go past them. The same thing happens if I switch lanes and have to speed up. It's usually not a dangerous situation, just annoying as hell, not just for me, but also the other drivers.

Perhaps the percentage of cars with manual transmissions is lower where both of you guys live than here in NC. I see cars like the Civic Si, STI, Mazdaspeed3, etc very regularly, none of which even offer an automatic. TONS of the VW Golfs and Mazda3s around here have manual transmissions (probably around 30 or 40%, no joke), and it's not that uncommon to see something like an Accord, Mazda6, or even the occasional Camry with a manual either. All I can say is that the drivers of these cars seem to be very competent, alert motorists. I simply cannot say the same about most other drivers, in particular truck and SUV drivers. It's like the drivers here are either REALLY good drivers, or terrible drivers, and most (but not all) of the former ones seem to be driving manuals.

I can almost guarantee that both of you haven't experienced slow like I have. We used to have a 1993 VW Eurovan, and I was usually the one that drove it. For a vehicle of its size, it actually handled pretty well, but holy cr*p it was nearly as slow as dirt. I checked out Zero To 60 Times and found that with the automatic transmission, it took nearly 17 seconds to accelerate to 60 from a stop. Unfortunately, production numbers for the manual Eurovans were so small that a 0-60 time for those models isn't provided, but I'm sure it was still at least 13 or 14 seconds. But it didn't feel that slow. It actually felt like it accelerated quicker than a Nissan Versa w/ CVT that I was unfortunate enough to have to drive three years ago, even though the Versa was no doubt faster. At full throttle in the Eurovan, I couldn't beat a normal freaking Prius accelerating normally from a stop light.

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Justin I'm having a bit of a difficult time following what you're going at in reference to passing people. I've had to pass people on a two lane road/win a stop light drag race in both automatics and manuals, and don't really see how manuals are inferior here. Yes you do have to let off the gas to shift into the next gear in a manual, but if you know what you're doing you don't really lose much time. I'd definitely rather be in a manual when I have to pass someone on a two lane road...I can downshift at the drop of a hat when traffic clears, but if I'm driving an automatic, especially one without a manual mode, it usually hesitates to downshift, and even then I'd prefer to go from fifth gear to third, something that an automatic won't do by itself, and once it does get into third you're already past the car you were passing.

Who cares though...I've gotten off on a rant and taken this thread car enough off topic, and it's obvious that we aren't going to see eye to eye on this issue. You keep driving and buying automatics and I'll do the same except with manuals and we'll both be happy. Sound like a plan?

There are a lot more automatics in my area because hills.

For my first car, I will be getting my sisters 08 Grand Cherokee, it has the 5.8L V8 though, so Im not that mad. I am very excited for my second car though that I'll get for my 17th birthday and that will either be a B6 S4 Avant or a E90 328xi Touring.

who needs reliability?

Hard to argue with an AWD V8 Wagon, especially with an available manual : )

It's just easier when you're passing people or if you need to do a quick overtaking maneuver on a highway. What's honestly easier: stamping on an accelerator pedal or dropping down a few gears manually and then accelerating to shift later? I don't know what automatic you're driving, but my Ford automatic always goes straight down from say 6th or 5th to 3rd. Trust me, I think if you actually drove some halfway decent automatics (or even a great one such as the PDK), you may have a better opinion of them.

The one I'm looking at is a black 06 with 110k miles (the only reason i won't get it) with a manual for $16.5k, if it was at around 70k miles it would be perfect.

My dad has two Audis...one has about 195,000 miles on it and the other nearly 270,000. They're not gonna fall apart on you if you take care of them.

I'm assuming they aren't S4's.

You must have Jesus-esque drivers there. The ones here are decent, good, or bad. I don't see a lot of manual transmissions unless it's in a muscle car or sports car, and even then a decent number of those are automatics. Might I add that I doubt the Golfs and Mazda3s constitute the majority of cars on the road there though. I don't get how you can tell if the good drivers are driving manuals or not. Unless it's in a car offered only in a manual, there isn't really any way to tell unless you're good at listening to quiet engines and examining how people start moving.

No, I've never experienced anything that slow. The slowest thing I've driven is a 2004 Toyota Avalon, which still does 0-60 in around 8 seconds. I guess the manual can make things feel a bit faster with really slow cars like that.

You'd be corrent. '95 A6 Quattro 5MT N/A 2.8 V6 and '02 Allroad 5AT 2.7T twin turbo V6. And we have another '02 Allroad in the garage, except it will be a Stage III car with 6MT.


You might as well be writing yourself a death wish when you drive in NC, particularly in Charlotte. In general, the drivers here are terrible. I can't honestly say that every driver I see who actually knows what the hell they're doing is driving a manual, but I can say that ALMOST every single driver who is endangering others is usually driving a car not even offered with a manual (usually a Toyota Camry, Lexus RX, Lexus ES, any sort of non-CR-Z hybrid vehicle, or virtually any truck). There are a lot of stop lights here, and even though that is supposedly one of the most annoying aspects to driving a manual, I can tell when they roll backwards, or lose momentum when they are shifting (if my window is down I can also hear them shift). There are times that none of the cars around me have manuals, and there are times (this is more often in the Raleigh area) when I'm in stop-and-roll traffic and the three or four consecutive cars in front of me all have manual transmissions. But there are a lot of hatchbacks and wagons here for some reason, although it seems like we have a lot of enthusiasts around Raleigh. GTI/GLIs, Sis, WRX/STIs, Mazdaspeed3s, etc are all very common, and it seems like the people who can't afford those buy hatchbacks with manual transmissions.

I should be getting my first car on Monday (I have a car but it was given to me by my parents, this will be mine). It has a turbo. It only comes in a manual. I don't know what else you can ask for!